no more political discussions with Christopher
We have to agree to disagree on a lot of things. We tend to agree on the big stuff, but really, he's still holding on to the dream that this clusterfuck in Iraq is going to result in the establishment of one or more democratic states in the Middle East.
Call me short sighted but I don't think the cost/benefit ratio is in our favor.
I'm not saying the concept of democracy in the Middle East isn't a noble dream--it would be lovely if it weren't for the messy death and destruction it takes to get there. Not to mention the high ideals tend to get pushed aside by the corruption of the war profiteers. So, while I agree that Saddam Hussein was an evil, murdering despot, I don't think the power vacuum we created in Iraq is a better situation.
And lying to the American people to get us there is indefensible.
I just hope history remembers to vilify Bush enough and he doesn't get the Reagan death-bed sainthood.
Call me short sighted but I don't think the cost/benefit ratio is in our favor.
I'm not saying the concept of democracy in the Middle East isn't a noble dream--it would be lovely if it weren't for the messy death and destruction it takes to get there. Not to mention the high ideals tend to get pushed aside by the corruption of the war profiteers. So, while I agree that Saddam Hussein was an evil, murdering despot, I don't think the power vacuum we created in Iraq is a better situation.
And lying to the American people to get us there is indefensible.
I just hope history remembers to vilify Bush enough and he doesn't get the Reagan death-bed sainthood.
posted by Lisa at
2:31 AM
4 Comments:
Hmmm, this really could be me talking. Were Scott and Christopher separated at birth, or is it just a "guy thing"?
I think they both might have analytical minds that are good at seeing both sides of the argument.
Whereas we may be ruled by the fact that we know we're right and we get emotional about any kind of wrongheaded thinking that might assert that we're not.
i really don't think the american public is looking at the right part of the equation, here.
i mean, if it was really about stopping terrorism and getting al queda, we'd have them by now. we could quintuple the number of troops we have over there, scour the countryside until we pulled every last one of them from mountains and holes and homes (harboring them) and it would be over.
but that's not what it's about.
we're tiptoeing through the tulips over there, not really going after any objectives--just kinda putzin' around.
there are a few companies and individuals who are making too much money off this situation to want it to end very soon. we're digging our heels in over there.
at this rate, we're ready to continue the occupation for another decade at least. maybe more.
another part of the situation we're overlooking is right here on home soil.
have you noticed how lots and lots of formerly criminal offenses are now labeled as terrorist actions.
the 'liberal' media has us looking at the one hand, while the other hand's passing laws and collecting money. and americans are going along with it.
about half the country doesn't even think it's a bad thing, us giving up more rights 'as long as it's for homeland security'. well, any security expert worth his salt will tell you that there's no such thing as security.
all you can do is make it hard for your attacker. make it take longer. jack up the required resources and lower the payoff. make it not worth it.
that's one way to fight terrorism. true terrorism is s'posed to be about terror, and if they don't get that, they cease to be terrorists. then they're just like any other criminal.
so don't fool yourself. and don't let the media fool you, either. this isn't about democracy--it's about terrorism.
fear in the masses can create complacency. obedience to principles the individuals of the mass wouldn't normally take.
anyway, i'm sorry for preaching at you and your readers. but you should really try to get as many sides of the story as you can. there are a lot of great independent (and local) media and news sources and it comes in all flavours.
online you can get a lot of great info at moveon dot org, the electronic frontier foundation for another side (many, actually) to the democracy story. you can get a lot of good info by attending town meetings (school meetings), and joining local organizations.
it's up to us to make this place better. and as long as our boys our over there fighting in the name of our morals, i think we should give them the support (and i don't mean yellow ribbon stickers) that they need and deserve. and if not--let's get 'em home.
talk to your government, get to know your environment, be a part of our country. let us know how you feel. active. involved. seriously, i know how lame that sounds, but it really is up to us.
anyway, i'm sorry to have gone off like that, you just happened to hit a topic that i feel very passionate about. so, i'm really gonna stop now. if you ever wanna reply, flame me for what i've said, tell me you deleted this post, hear what i'm ranting about that day, or just get in general contact i can usually be found here or here. thanks for taking the time to read this far and i hope some of this made some sense (it's late). oh, and here's some more good independent news sources...
wbai internet (and fm) radio
indymedia dot org
slashdot and wired nerd news
dcinfoshop--support local merchants such as indy book stores
npr
underground news
have a good day. keep up the weblog thing--it's good to be heard.
0wn yourself.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. However, I'm a member of moveon.org and volunteered for them last fall during the election. I remain fully active in both my state (such as it is) and local government issues because that's really the only place I feel that I can make a difference at this point.
I'm a little more well educated on the subject than this post implies. I honestly try to keep a lot of my ranting off this blog because it is often full of despair and the people who regularly read my blog probably share most of my views, so it's like preaching to the choir and it brings people down.
In the first part of your post you say, "i mean, if it was really about stopping terrorism and getting al queda, we'd have them by now. we could quintuple the number of troops we have over there, scour the countryside until we pulled every last one of them from mountains and holes and homes (harboring them) and it would be over.
but that's not what it's about."
And then at the end you say, "so don't fool yourself. and don't let the media fool you, either. this isn't about democracy--it's about terrorism."
So forgive me if I think you've kind of contradicted yourself.
I think this country can learn a lot from countries that deal with terrorism on a regular basis (both from their mistakes and their victories). And yet, we often seem to keep a narrow, American focus, assuming, as Americans often do, that we are superior in most everything and can't fail to win.
Our leaders are stubbornly ignoring 2000+ years of history in the Middle East and think that by transplanting Western Democracy there, we'll "defeat the terrorists".
It's arrogant and disgusting and it's costing too many human lives, not to mention spreading fear and panic among common people while the wealthy and the powerful continue to consolidate their stranglehold on this country.
I don't believe this "war" is about terrorism. I think that's what Bush wants us to believe--just as he wanted us to believe it was about WMD and then "Democracy". I'm just not buying it.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."--Benjamin Franklin
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